`Francis MONKMAN`

This interview with Francis Monkman was conducted by e-mail in December 1998.

You were classically trained on the organ and harpsichord at the Westminster School and subsequently at the Royal Academy of Music; in parallel to your later activities in rock music you kept playing classical concerts. How easy or difficult has it been for you to have "a foot in both camps" - from your own perspective, and from that of other people - "integrists" of the rock and classical worlds who generally despise each others?
From my own perspective, no problem at all, rather the reverse -- in fact the cross-fertilization of ideas and of understanding has been far richer, and more relevant than I would have imagined possible. To give you but one example, I've really only figured out my own sense of rock modality since coming to an understanding of the modality of the 17th century (the last time in the West that things seemed as uncertain as they do now). It also gives me occasional leeway, in the example of a 'general pronouncement' not long ago at an organ recital by a well-known French player, that "organists should be required to learn electric guitar, as concomitant with a study of the placing of loud sounds in space".
From any other perspective, totally impossible. Especially since the 80s, music and musicians have become so categorized that the kind of experimentation that went on in the 60s seems unthinkable (and when I tell you that Terry Riley, on a visit in 86 for a performance of In C with orchestra, told me that he'd long harboured an ambition to play Mozart's D minor piano concerto, I think you'll agree that the world has missed out on a number of good things that were there for the taking). I cannot say I have been able to pursue what might be called a career, in either. This is not to imply that I haven't been busy writing, playing, even performing etc, as well as 'continuing my musical education'...

While we're at it... Favourite composers and works in the field of classical music?
I started with Mozart's operas (my parents both being great fans), particularly the first two Da Ponte operas, and the Entführung, which is definitely under-rated. Cosi is great stuff, of course, but I think Mozart was not really in sympathy with the ideas expressed -- remember he was a supporter of Mesmer, for example. There's a charming little 'doodle' in the overture, crops up again in Czerny's "School of Velocity" (that pianists cut their teeth on), so I think that's what Mozart is saying, underneath. Then Bach, of course, I took to him straightaway, and Handel -- of course I was particularly interested in the keyboard works, having already something of a mind to play the thing myself. I think the great composer/keyboardists (Beethoven too, but of course not Mozart) reserved some of their finest utterances for this most mechanical of musical devices -- Bach for the organ, even more so. Well, my late father's interests made few excursions beyond the end of the 18th century (trad jazz being one of the unlikelier), so I had to tread my own path. Suffice to say, I find the product of the 19th century, generally speaking, 'overblown' -- except (a perverse exception, you might say, in light of the preceding pronouncement) for Richard Wagner, who trancends (at his best) all considerations to the extent that one can only stand, awestruck. Wagner seems to me to have the 'overview', and psychological undestanding, of, say, a great film director, who just happens to write his own music. I had a big thing for Mahler during my teens, but I can't listen to him now. The most important event, between 1900 and the 'musical explosion' of the 60s, must be Stravinsky's Rite Of Spring. Then, perhaps, Terry Riley's In C. Then the way was opened for -- well, "progressive rock" hardly seems to do justice to the range of possibilities.

It was while you were both studying at the Royal Academy of Music that you met Darryl Way. In September 1969, you formed a band together, Sisyphus. This was right at the time when the "progressive rock" movement was born, and bands like King Crimson, Renaissance or Yes were starting. To what extent was the idea of progressive music "in the air", and to what extent did musicians like you create it "ex nihilo"?
It was a time of great eclecticism. I remember Darryl and Rob, very excited one afternoon, they'd just been working on a new chord sequence, turned out to be "Vivaldi", which became a kind of classic-rock definition. Then there was the Terry Riley influence I wanted to bring in, there were innumerable influences on all of us. That, of course, included the nascent progressive movement (Revolver was probably more seminal than Sgt.Pepper, but you can't get the mono mix -- the stereo always was a bummer), Procol (particularly for me, Robin Trower's guitar work), Nice, then Cream and Hendrix, Soft Machine (worth remembering Ratledge's Hindemith influence, talking of 'classic-rock', hey, and what about the Grateful Dead's links with Berio?), even Patto (remember them?). It seemed as if everybody was groovin' off everybody else's ideas, I could just go on listing names...

What are your own favourite 'classics' of that period (late 60s to mid 70s)? Were you at all interested in what other bands in the 'genre' were doing?
Interestingly, I find I've done some reassessing. I had a bad bout of flu, start of '97, felt like starting from zero-point, afterwards; at the same time, you may remember, there was a spate of "self-doubt" going on in the media, kind of "has it all been worth it?" sort of thing. Well, they were talking 500 years of European Renaissance, and I figured that while Bach and Leonardo can survive without my endorsement (although I'm more than happy to give it), maybe I should just take a look at some of the fruits of that more recent renaissance, that happened during my own youth. So I started on a journey of rediscovery (Workingman's Dead was my trapdoor) and followed my 'investigative nose', fuelled with a large dose of intuition. You know they say that if you can remember the 60s, you weren't there, well it's true. For me, the most astonishing experience came with the first Dead album (I'd worked through the intervening three by then) -- it took me half a dozen plays to realize that I knew it really well, I'd been thinking "how come I never heard this before?" So, a quick list of faves might include: Grateful Dead, Anthem of the Sun; Quicksilver, Happy Trails; Country Joe, Electric Music for Mind and Body; Captain Beefheart, Strictly Personal; Spirit, the first four albums, Soft Machine, Volume 2; John Mayall, Bluesbreakers (for a natural connection between blues and psychedelia, listen to Clapton's playing on the first track) -- well, that's a few, and if you say, well they're mostly West Coast, I stand mortified: I have to admit, mostly it sounds much fresher, to me, than it did then. I think my English childhood's 'mild prejudice' against things colonial prevented me from fully appreciating it, first time around. But that stuff goes in way, way deep, lodges in the subconscious, that's the idea behind my title "Heard in dreams".

In the case of Darryl and you, was it also a way to "escape" from the rigidity of the classical world, and "go out in the street"? Was there an aspect of "being bad boys" or was it an entirely serious thing?
There's always been a downside area to this 'bad boy' thing. Both the Stones and the Dead fell for it, and that led directly to Altamont -- bad karma. About the music, all I can say is, there's no way we could not have done it. Certainly the sixties was a time of great eclectisism, hope it'll happen again, preferably soon.

Curved Air was launched amidst major publicity for your debut album. This helped the band rise to the top of the charts very quickly, and tour the UK and the US repeatedly. What memories do you have of these early days? Was it going too fast?
I'm sure I could fill a book, maybe quite a lot of holes in the pages. Yeah, much too fast, we were just there in time to fill it (and it was good enough to take some filling), couldn't do much more though. Certainly not detach from circumstances, and you need that for regeneration. Plenty of extremes, good, bad.

The second album brought several changes. First, the balance between your use of guitar and synthesizers grew in favour of the latter. Secondly, you wrote the whole second side of the album, including the long, largely instrumental "Piece Of Mind", while the Way/Kristina pair wrote the first side. This seems to indicate that your input in the band was growing, but also that there was an increasing polarisation in the creative process. What can you say about this?
It's true that "Piece Of Mind" was my first attempt at composing something more extended than a 'song', and while I was busy with that, Darryl and Sonja were putting stuff together. I was always looking for a balance on this one, seems to me crucial to the whole idea of progressive rock. I don't think a split was consciously being formed, but it's true we'd lost our 'link' man, Robert Martin. His presence might have helped hold things together, psychologically speaking, but then he's a very 'intuitive', self-taught bass-player and Darryl was looking to tighten the whole thing up, make it more professional. Worth remembering that the second album's the first time I had my own VCS3, and it's true I was getting more interested in playing keyboards in a rock context, having come to rock by way of electric guitar.

Let's talk briefly of technology. At the time, you mainly used a VCS-3 synth and an oscilloscope. What was your approach in terms of the use of synths at the time? Was using the VCS-3 a decision made after comparing it with other existing synthesizers - mostly the Moog, if I'm not mistaken? Was it possible to use the VCS-3 conveniently on the road?
Yeah, the oscilloscope was largely cosmetic, you know, worst screen-shot I've ever seen, too. I was fortunate enough to have had the use of a VCS3 since 1969, when my flat-mate Robin Thompson (who was in "Intermodulation" with Andrew Powell & Co) got hold of one of the first. My experience with Moogs has not been so good -- I always thought the Minimoog far too limited after the VCS3, and even the big modular affairs fail to impress me, though it's true Keith E. got a monster sound out of his. I heard some good sounds out of a Polymoog, once, but I've no idea how they were programmed. The VCS3 did fine on the road, considering the inevitable tuning problems; after all this time, it still strikes me as a 'minor miracle', I even had mine refurbished and midied.

And what was your perception of your status of multi-instrumentalist - did you feel torn between guitar and keyboards?
Not at all. Preferably I'd play both simultaneously, maybe I'll work a little harder on that one.

The third - and last - studio album you did with Curved Air, "Phantasmagoria" was less well-received as the previous two, and it still gets mixed opinions from fans of the group. Some think it's the band's best-ever album, others think it's a failure. What is your opinion? Your composition "Over And Above" brought forth a previously little-heard influence in Curved Air's music - jazz. Did this reflect you musical evolution at the time?
Well, I think, looking back, that Phantasmagoria represents a very honest picture of the nightmare existence we were having. Not the gigs, which were the best part, but increasingly most else. Plus the nightmare of sensing the beginning of the change from 'dawn of a new future' to 'back in your boxes'. Quicksilver came out with "Joseph's Coat" back in 69, but five years later Cipollina was singing about "Heebie Jeebies"; so, our music just tells our story. One thing I remember though, playing "Over and Above" at a festival in Germany, pre-dawn, and then watching the light come up during the instrumental, and, hey, we could suddenly all see each other, all 50,000 of us! That was a moment I'll never forget. Jazz, well, I got that via the Softs (though I'd always liked Monk, some Brubeck, then Mike Gibbs) -- led to a split there too, as I remember.

In October 1972, Curved Air split up. While it could have been expected that either you or Darryl would have left the band, you both did, leaving Sonja to form a new line-up. What were the reasons for the split?
We were all dead beat. We'd just been told that if we toured the U.S. three more times before next Spring, we might just about break even. Head against a brick wall, the image that came to mind then.

You guested on Renaissance's album "Prologue". How did this happen? Did you see some similarity (as one would) between that band and Curved Air - the classical-rock fusion, and the amazing female vocalist?
Yeah, I saw them not long ago, they played me that track, sounded fine. I think our approach was much rawer (if you saw any gigs, I think you'll understand), which surprised some people. I remember when I first saw Genesis, thinking how tightly arranged it sounded, and that was one aspect of classical music-making that I wanted to escape, for sure. Even Sky, which was in many respects very tightly arranged, gigged in a very 'spontaneous' way!

Immediately after the split, you started working with Robert Wyatt, resulting in a BBC session with him in December 1972. How were you introduced? Shortly after that, he left for Italy for several weeks; before he left, were any plans made for common projects?
I've mentioned Robin and Andrew, I met the Softs through them, first saw them supporting Hendrix in 69, "Esther's Nose Job" was what I took away from the concert. There were no plans following the BBC recordings, though hearing what's been recovered on "Flotsam Jetsam" makes me wonder why. Seems to me we clicked, musically.

In what way? What do you think he found interesting in that particular partnership? The fact that you were a keyboard player with an interest in synthesizers? That you were a classically trained musician?...
I wish I could tell you, would if I knew. Like I said, the track(s) on "Flotsam Jetsam" make me think we missed out -- my piano playing is more 'orchestral' than Ratledge's, and for Robert's inimitable 'na-na-na' vocal improvisations, seems perfectly suited, the VCS3 too. Hell, and I could have done a monster arrangement on "Esther"! (Seems to me that riff got 'thrown away' a little).

When Robert came back, plans were made for a new Matching Mole. Of course, Robert's accident put an end to this project. How far did you go as far as establishing a musical direction? Did you personally compose for the project?
We never got as far as rehearsing Matching Mole, so I can't say how that lineup would have worked. Nothing got written, far as I know.

Why didn't you take part in the "Rock Bottom" album?
Can't say -- I don't remember being asked to play on it, but could be I was just 'busy'.

There is an intriguing picture in the "Wrong Movements" book. It's said to be from 1973 and taken in Paris, and it had a lot of interesting people on it - Wyatt, Ratledge, Daevid Allen, you, Elton Dean, Karl Jenkins, John Marshall, Mike Ratledge, Bill MacCormick... Do you have any idea of the circumstances? What's most surprising to me is the apparent laughter going on, as Wyatt is surrounded by the very people who threw him out of the Soft Machine and whom, to this day, he still seems to resent and despise for that...
Put on the spot, here. If it was '73, I'd left Curved Air, but then I do have vague memories of a trip to Paris around then, maybe for a session. Yeah, all I can say is, when I saw the photo on your site, I just remembered something about the occasion, not sure what. Maybe Bill would know. I really can't talk about Robert's feelings on the split, then or now (though I sent him a CD of Volume 2 last year, just wanted him to know how good it sounded on digital, and I'm not sure he's forgiven me, haven't heard from him since anyway). I will say, however, how disappointed I feel when I see those I previously respected 'cashing in' on selling out the 60s' (precious) legacy.

Around that time, you did a lot of session work. Did you see it as a way to "earn your bread" while waiting for the opportunity of forming your own group? Did you make friends in the sessions circuit? Any that you've remained friends with to this day? Any particular memories of recording sessions? Any records you are particularly proud to have played on?
No, I saw it as a way to broaden my musical experience, while paying the bills. I wanted to play with other musicians, do a variety of work (only keys, never played any guitar on sessions, I don't think). There were some great albums, particularly in the early days when record companies were still prepared to throw money at any wild scheme, so the list, even if I could remember half of it, would take far too long to tell. I remember playing on an album for the Italian prog singer Alan Sorrenti, then a tour of Italy, that was fun, and a good album. Many good albums got forgotten, lost -- at least I never heard of them again. I still remember many of my fellow session players fondly, for example Barry de Souza (who stood in for Flo for a while in 1971) -- can't say I ever get to see them, though.

In the Autumn of 1974, Curved Air reformed with almost the entire original line-up of a 3-week UK tour, allegedly to pay a huge VAT bill. This resulted in a very good live album, but then the band split up again. Was there no way, from the start, you would continue beyond that tour, after you'd made enough money to pay the bills? In what way was the team so incompatible?
We were being sued by Chrysalis, whose agency contract we'd broken (on the advice of our then manager, Clifford Davis). Couple of years later of course, none of us could remember the exact details, so we were forced to pay up. It was agreed in advance that, apart from the post-production of the live album, no further involvement was required. The basic problems I had with Curved Air hadn't been resolved, the rock scene seemed to me to have run its course, and I was keen to settle down to some 'family life', I remember turning down an offer to join Richie Blackmore's Rainbow, so I was in no hurry to go back on the road just then.

Subsequently, you started a collaboration with Phil Manzanera which culminated in the 801 project for a UK tour in 1976. I assume you met Phil through Bill McCormick...
Assumption correct, dear chap!

...Why weren't you involved at all in the writing for the 801 project? Was it a Manzanera/Eno project in which you were only a support musician? Or were your compositions left off the album?
I saw my role as that of 'support musician', maybe I was in a 'session-man' frame of mind. Certainly I know that my 'musicianship' led to the inclusion of Lloyd in the band, as 'non-musician balance'. Turned out fine, as you know -- 801 Live's still a monster live album, I'm most pleased to have been there, played a part.

In 1978, you played with Darryl Way again, on his "Concerto For Violin and Synth" album - which suggests that the hardest person for you to get along with in Curved Air was Sonja rather than Darryl? How did this renewed collaboration come about? Have you stayed in touch with Darryl since?
Always got along fine with Sonja, since you ask. And, I thought my disagreements with Darryl were supposed to be 'legendary'! Of course I respect him as a musician, so I was happy to help with his Concerto (remember he had no other way of recording it at the time), and enjoyed the music. We stay in touch, and it seems you don't know of his 'amplified quartet' gigs (and album) in the 80s. We even played Glastonbury together in '86 (classical tent), I played a concerto, continuo, and Beethoven's "Pathétique" on synthesizer.

Were you involved in the reformation of Curved Air for the Central TV "Bedrock" series in 1990 (never seen or heard it!)?
Yes, the 1990 reform was the original lineup -- I even hauled Rob back in for the second gig (not his fault it wasn't as good as the first). The TV show was the incentive to make the (all in all, not inconsiderable) effort, but that fell through.

Then Sky was formed. Another major publicity coup as well as a gathering of superb musicians. Did it feel particularly daring to form an instrumental rock ensemble at the height of the punk madness?
I worked on John Williams's second 'crossover' album, ended up writing what became the title track, "Travelling". Sounds like 'proto-Sky', so you'll be getting the picture. John and I went for a stroll, some fresh air, and he said "how about a band?", went on from there. Herbie was already playing on the album, seemed a natural choice, then Kevin, then Tris. Couldn't have been simpler.

How do you explain that it was such a commercial success when progressive rock, according to the media/labels, was a thing of the past that nobody was interested in anymore? Are we talking of some major scale manipulation here? Do you reckon this sort of music could have gone on enjoying some reasonable level of success if it hadn't been for the media's sudden disgust with the idea of "intelligent rock music"?
Yeah, I like taking all that carefully-constructed fashion stuff and saying "eff off". So the fact that Sky had no style or pretensions of any kind, but just played these stunning gigs, that left a kind of aura of gold filigree energy just hanging in the air, and turned on people from totally different backgrounds, ages, ways of life -- that I really like. So I'm still convinced that Sky did so well because people liked the music -- sounds naive, eh?

On Sky's first two albums, you contributed a sidelong epic that was probably the pinnacle of each of them. It seemed you were the major creative force in that band. Then suddenly you left, at a point where Sky seemed bound for durable and massive success, with two chart albums and a couple of major tours behind you. Apart from the aspiration to a solo career, what were your motivations for jumping off the ship and losing the opportunity of commercially-successful and artistically-uncompromising vehicle for your music?
Precisely because it was no longer to be 'artistically-uncompromising'! When we started recording the third album, I knew it'd been hijacked. Don't ask me why, maybe your point about 'sudden disgust with the idea of intelligent rock music' has something to do with it. As for Sky CD royalties, we ain't seen 'em.

How come? I've always found it strange to see Sky albums in bargain bins everywhere, among lots of filth and crap (disco compilations etc.). Can you elaborate a bit on that? How come were the rights "sold" to these "bargain-binners"? Any ongoing trial?
Well there was a 'decision' made, when the CDs were issued, to sell at rock-bottom price -- guess that's what someone thought they were worth! Next thing, the money was all tied up over some legal wrangle over re-imports, that's the last we heard, must be more than ten years ago now. Course, Sky's former management being 'close to Royalty' and all that, means we got the best lawyers in the land on our side, can't complain about that.

In 1980-81, you put out two solo albums - "Energism" and "Dweller On The Threshold"; you also wrote acclaimed filmscores, including "The Long Good Friday"...
Energism was a library album that was sort of 'too good for library', so some bright spark had the idea of releasing it. Fine, but I want the world to know it was recorded in two days, right? Dweller was a carefully planned and recorded (Abbey Road) album, I still think it deserves to be better-known. "Long Good Friday" is a classic, we all know. So you tell me, if you got any ideas -- I'm still trying to figure it out!

Any plans to reissue these albums on CD?
Maybe I'll get round to putting my copy-master of Dweller onto CD...

Andy Latimer played on that album, and you played on Camel's The Single Factor the following year. How did you meet? Still in touch?
Tony and Haydn's suggestion. I can't say I've followed up on Camel, maybe my loss.

The official reason for your leaving Sky was to concentrate on a solo career, but as far as I am concerned, I lose your trace shortly after that. No more solo albums, no more guest appearances after Camel's "Single Factor", etc. What happened?
As I said, plenty of writing, playing, etc., only you never got to hear about any of it. There's a big piece, 'urdance', I started in about '83, had a few performances in an orchestral/synth version, including one at theQEH. Loved by the audience (Andrew Powell was on bass guitar, by the way), it got dismissed in a single bad review. I got to play Beethoven's "Emperor" (on acid, but you better not print that) at the Conway Hall. There were a couple of library albums, 84 and 92. I did one more film for John McKenzie, "The Innocent", very low-key, quite good if you can find it. Zoetrope, Coppolla's outfit, got interested after LGF, wanted to hear what I was doing, so I sent them Dweller -- never heard back. I could easily write a book about the last 15 years, from the point of view of my own experience -- but it's true to say there's been less 'exposure', from a public point of view.

Let's move on - at last! - to your new project, "21st Century Blues". Why a self-production? Were there any attempts at signing with a label to ensure better distribution? Or was this out of the question from the start, because this sort of music is so out-of-fashion you thought it wasn't even worth trying?
Yeah, I'm too old to go hawking my wares round a music biz that's apparently chased itself several times up its arse and then round some. And if taking you on an 80-min musical journey, no holds barred, is deeply unfashionable (as I'm sure it is), then it'll just have to wait for lil' ol' fashion to come round again, or scratch itself. Apart from that, it was a great challenge to do from zero, and with George's help, I learned more about production on 21st than on anything I've ever done before, probably put together.

Similarly, was using a "Virtuous-Realiti Band" (i.e. doing everything yourself?), a constraint or challenge you set yourself, to the point of being an integral part of the album's concept?
I think you can tell from the material, how much it needs a 'band treatment'. So my first idea was to look for musicians, do some rehearsing, that kind of thing. Hard enough forming a band, when you're eighteen (and there's some kind of dole, or free college, that stuff). So when it became clear (hell, man, people are busy, or need to be payed, have committments) that I'd have to find another solution, it was just one more challenge.

Can you detail the various phases of the album's conception - the writing, the arranging (who is Michael Gore?), the programming/playing, the recording (nice to see George Chkiantz is still around - I know his name from old Soft Machine and King Crimson albums!)...?
I'm saying nothing, till people have had a chance to hear it. Then I'll tell everything, all credit where it's due. Mike Gore's a 'space guitarist', he suggested a jam one day back in 88ish, got me back into playing guitar, Florian got involved, then Rob once in a while (he lives in New York now). I put a few minutes of that on my site. Flo and me, it changed our lives, we both agree on that. We did a lot of jamming, the three of us, back in 68-9, but this was more like a fulfillment of that early stuff. George, yes, and he was second engineer on many of the early Hendrix tracks, invented phasing (sure you must know that). And mixed "Honky Tonk Women", "You can't always etc", got the drum sound on "Whole Lotta love", as well as mixing Soft Machine 2 (for me their definitive album, production and all), Brian Jones's Moroccan expedition, the list should indeed go on. (Guess you could say he's another one didn't quite find himself a career).

Are you the only player on the album at all? What instruments and devices did you use?
Sorry, but refer to the previous. The band say "thanks", however. (Maybe Sid spat on the floor, but I wasn't looking.)

With a few exceptions, in particular the bits with the female vocalist (what's her name?), the vocals on the album are generally in the background and sound like an element of the music on par with the other instruments, not the predominant "message", not always easy to understand. Why?
Well man, as a prog rocker I'd thought you'd know that one! I mean, George and I still argue over whether Robert's voice is too quiet on parts of Soft Machine 2 -- because George, ande many engineers from the original prog rock era, got caught by their own attempts to balance the vocals on the threshold of intelligability (so's the vocals don't interfere with the musical trip, if you get me). So if I could convince George on this one, I reckon it's okay. The trick's in 'peripheral hearing' -- don't try and hear the vocals, and you'll end up hearing them. Julia Rathbone, she gets a credit there somewhere, but the vocal's to her real credit. She sings on Dweller, too.

What does the phrase "21st Century Blues" mean to you? I do hear references to blues on the album, but on the whole I find it more akin to progressive rock, with some exceptions as this is quite a varied album overall. Can you elaborate on the "concept" of "21st Century Blues"?
Just takin' a look at what the world's got to be blue about, this new dawn. Seems like too much for one album, but that's what it's about. Well of course, prog's a child of rock, same as rock's a child of blues. Add a classical education and a few external influences and you're bound to end up with a varied sorta mix. If what you're saying (with exquisite politeness, of course) is, "Why white bo' play dem blues?", all I can say is, comes natural. The language of dispossession's the blues, I figure, and my whole generation got dispossessed, the way I see it. Now Aquarius is back, things gonna change. Feel it in the bones, already.

Generally, what are your current musical activities? Do they include band activities? Are you still involved in classical music at all? Are you still in contact with musicians you worked with in the 70s? Are you aware of the current progressive rock "revival"?
Played a few pub blues jams, searching for musicians last year! The odd organ recital (mostly Bach -- played a recital at Westminster Cathedral, that's one loud fella). Met up with Renaissance a few months back, had veggie nosh with Sonja the other evening, once in a while I run into David Graham. Yeah, I'm not really happy with this "progressive rock" label, any way at all. I go for that Chinese philosopher, who said "once you've labelled it, it's already dead". If it progresses, it's progressive!